Comments on: Apple Logic Studio vs Protools 8 : Royal rumbbbblllle!!1!

By: Sean

Sean — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:35:33 +0000

@Scott : Recording at a higher sample rate allows you to capture a higher bit depth and sample rate. This means that you can possibly capture sound better. However, if the rest of your gear isn’t up to snuff, it will sound worse.

If your equipment supports it, I recommend 88.2 kHz. A few years back, I had the pleasure of attending a lecture given by George Massenburg. Keep in mind that this man is a legend and has some of the most refined ears in the business. He suggested multiples of the CD sample rate (ie. 44.1, 88.2, 176.4, etc.) because the algorithms to convert it into 16-bit 44.1 kHz would be cleaner. I’m sure people will argue that bigger is better no matter the math, but is there honestly much difference between 88.2 and 96kHz? Check out my post about sample rates for more info : http://www.keyofgrey.com/?p=2231

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:09:52 +0000

Sean,

Thanks for your detailed workflow description. That makes a lot of sense, especially the click sync points. I figured it was something like that. I meant to ask earlier but forgot: What is your opinion on sample rate settings? There is much discussion online about using a higher sample rate during recording, such as 96k, even though the end product is CD at 16 Bit 44.1k. I think the ProTools manual suggests recording at 88.2k as an option, to make the down-convert for CD easier. Some suggest that 44.1k is just fine. I always record 24 bit files for the increased dynamic range, and fIle size is not a concern to me…

Any thoughts?

Scott

By: Sean

Sean — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:13:40 +0000

@Edgee: If your reason for using Protools over Logic is a function of simple cost, the old arguments no longer apply. As I’ve stated before, you can build a hackintosh to run Apple software without having to buy an actual Apple computer, which eliminates that argument for the equation. Logic is 500 dollars, while the cheapest Protools rig is the Mbox 2 Micro, which comes in at $350. However, Logic is in no way crippled and includes a lot of extra content, while Protools 8 LE is limited in tracks and extras (samplers, synths, mixing plugins, and sample content). There’s no way you can do a professional mix on the LE version (especially due to the restricted number of tracks) which means you at least have to buy the production toolkits which put you over the price of Logic.

As for “sound quality” differences between the software, digital audio is digital audio, the difference in sound comes from the AD converters, and the digital summing algorithms. No engineer goes directly into Protools hardware, they use their own preamps and their own AD converters and simply run through the Protools hardware with SPDIF, thereby completely bypassing the hardware. The only reason they go through the hardware at all is because it’s a requirement of the software. Same deal on the way out, neither Protools or Logic has great summing algorithms, so professionals use external summing hardware.

No software can sound better than another, unless you’re talking about plugins which do have different algorithms because they’re affecting the audio, not just playing it back. There is no difference in sound quality between Logic, Protools, Reaper, Cubase, Sonar or any of the popular software titles out there. There is only cost, and workflow to consider. Protools isn’t a great songwriting tool, Logic isn’t a great editing tool. I wish there was one title that did both well, and with the same value benefits. But there isn’t, so I’ll continue to use both until there is.

By: Sean

Sean — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:55:40 +0000

@ Scott: Thanks for dropping by! To answer your question, my specific workflow between the two platforms is as follows:
(1) I write the song using whatever software synths, and samplers I need in Logic.
(2) I bounce a stereo reference mix out and import that into a new Protools project being sure that both projects have the same tempo settings.
(3) I record whatever live audio I need in Protools and do whatever fine editing and comping of the tracks is required.
(4) I make sure that there is at least 2 bars of empty space at the beginning of the song. I then feed the output of each track into the input of another track and record each with a metronome for the first empty bar (toggled live during recording), and then space for the second empty bar. This will provide me with tracks that have a perfect “count in” when I record each track again. The reason for this is that when I perform the syncing in Logic for step 5, I will be able to visually and aurally line up each new recorded Protools track in Logic perfectly. You cannot trust that an audio track will have the exact amount of space at the beginning of the track when bounced, so this ensures an easier time syncing.
(5) Import the audio tracks into Logic and mix away.

I might add that you can save time by not re-recording each track with a click to sync if you don’t have many tracks and can just do it by ear. You can also bounce multiple tracks together if you don’t mind not being able to mix them later. If you have a lot of money and can afford nice plugins for Protools, you might just do your mixing in Protools instead of Logic and save yourself the headache. I do not have many plug ins with Protools, so I use the comprehensive mixing tools included in Logic. I hope that helps!

I’d like to reiterate that you can record your full song in Protools if you have the proper tools there. As is, Protools, even in 8 form, does not include as many tools as Logic does for the money (not including Apple hardware which, as I’ve stated in other posts, you do not need if you’re building a hackintosh). People have workflow and budget constraints that push them to one platform or the other, but if you get it done in one piece of software instead of both, as I do, it’s ideal.

By: Scott

Scott — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:35:13 +0000

To those users of both PT8 and Logic Studio:

I have a question about workflow. First off, I must state that I used ProTools back in the 90′s (v 3.0) quite a bit, but then got out of the game for a few years. I recently have been recording a bit and purchased Logic Studio because of the feature set. Like many, I have found the audio editing capabilities of Logic to be difficult and cumbersome. It just takes longer to edit things with Logics tools and interface, plus my past experience with PT has me wishing for it’s ease of use.

Question: Some have stated that they use Logic for Song composition, but they track things like vocals and guitars (which likely will have to be edited) in PT and bring the comp tracks into Logic. I would love to know the specific process and any issues that need to be addressed?

Do you bounce a mix of the rhythm tracks out of Logic, import that into PT, record vocals/guitars with the bounce as a reference, do your edits, then somehow export that into Logic for final mix?

Please advise,

Scott

By: EdGee

EdGee — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:34:14 +0000

To TK – I am told by colleagues that Coldplay’s Viva La Vida album used both Logic and Protools. I think you may have read this http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/action/markusdravs/ article. Logic was indeed used for some location recording and idea-exchange by both Marcus and Rik Simpson but I am assured the studio-based work was done in Protools HD. Rik is a known evangeliser of the use of Protools. Brian Eno, co-producer of Viva La Vida, is also a well-known user of Logic for creation and sketching, and Protools for the final mix. Eno was actually once quoted as saying Logic was better than Protools because it didn’t require proprietary hardware – and he could therefore use it in his hotel room- but then that was a long time ago, both packages have taken ideas from each other and he doesn’t see that an Apple Mac is absolutely proprietary hardware just as much as anything required to run Protools. To use the argument of the common man, Protools can run on a PC, Logic can’t. In any case could he not afford an MBox 2 micro or some such? He certainly could if he bought a PC laptop instead of a Macbook. It’s not like it takes up much room either…

As you might have guessed, I run my studio, very successfully, with Protools on PCs. I also use Cubase if necessary, occasionally Sonar if a client has work on there, and my quick-and-dirty creative tool of choice is in fact FL Studio 8 which has absolutely all the features of every other DAW and then some, but is let down in my opinion by overall sound quality and mastering facilities.
I’d simply never dream of doing my final mix for a commercial release in Logic. Sorry.

By: Sean

Sean — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:34:02 +0000

@fikonhjul : That’s correct. The last version of Logic to be available on the PC platform was Logic 5.

By: Fikonhjul

Fikonhjul — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 13:06:32 +0000

Just a detail: if my memory serves me, Logic 6 was released as an Apple product. Apple bought Emagic in 2002, when Logic was at version 5.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/15proaudio.html

By: Sean

Sean — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:02:04 +0000

@Alexander: I love the value of Logic, and it’s my mainstay. I use Protools when I go into other studios mainly because that’s the standard. I wish Logic had audio editing similar to Protools though…comping vocals is still annoying in Logic, even in version 8.

@TK: There’s no doubt that Logic is a versatile tool. However, I am looking at the new Ableton 8 for some live stuff I want to do. Unfortunately, while I reached out to the publishers of Protools, Cubase and Ableton (since all have new versions out), none has yet provided me copies for a comparison review. Word from their representatives have been that they will provide review copies when in stock…but I’ve been waiting 3 months. Guess I’m not high on the review totem pole.

By: TK

TK — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:12:28 +0000

Alex

Actually NIN uses Logic Pro8 MainStage for their live performances as well as int the studio.
Additionally, for example, Mark Dravs also used Logic for Coldplays Viva La Vida….
I am sure both platforms has its followers….
I personally use Logic with a 24:iMac. Never have used ProTools so can’t comment on it.